[All] Undecided -Liberals currently in second place

Sat Oct 19 10:02:32 EDT 2019

Well thought out plan Greg. I hope everything works out after the vote for
us all and the natural world!

Lori

From: Gregory C. Michalenko <gcmichalenko at uwaterloo.ca> 
Sent: Saturday, October 19, 2019 9:04 AM
To: strothjkl at sympatico.ca; 'Kevin Thomason' <kevinthomason at mac.com>;
'Eleanor Grant' <eleanor7000 at gmail.com>
Cc: GREN <all at gren.ca>
Subject: Re: [All] Undecided -Liberals currently in second place

Thanks for the response. I'm well aware of that Lori.  Check out CBC poll
tracker for the best info and analysis of the polls.  Strategic voting as a
tactic varies depending on the riding.  You can go to elections canada for
exact results in the 2015 elect for each riding - as well as each individual
polling station. that gives you a base to start with (Libs got 49% in
Waterloo last time) I would vote differently myself if i lived in different
ridings.  I've made my political donations to 3 different parties in 5  key
ridings to make sure that 5 candidates who I think are particularly
important have the best chance to win (eg, Charlie Angus in Timmins-James
Bay).

-Greg

  _____  

From: strothjkl at sympatico.ca <mailto:strothjkl at sympatico.ca>
<strothjkl at sympatico.ca <mailto:strothjkl at sympatico.ca> >
Sent: Friday, October 18, 2019 6:31:07 PM
To: Gregory C. Michalenko; 'Kevin Thomason'; 'Eleanor Grant'
Cc: GREN
Subject: RE: [All] Undecided -Liberals currently in second place 

Just so you know, a friend of our works for the Liberal Party and he said
right now, according to some numbers they are watching very closely, the
Liberals are in second place, so it very well could be a Conservative
government. Just letting you know so that you can decide what you want to do
- another 4 years (or 10 years) of doing nothing on the environment at all,
and even negative steps to detract from environmental protections like
Stephen Harper did,  is a strong  possibility. Whether the other parties (
NDP and/or Greens) can or will decide to help the Liberals in the  house if
they end up with less seats than the Conservatives  remains to be seen. He
said that so many  people are voting NDP And Green that is taking votes away
from the Liberals, which is peoples' right to do so, but we have to look at
what we end up with. You have seen what Doug Ford has done to Ontario. The
Mayor of Vancouver is saying Scheer will be worse than Harper.  Personally I
had to vote Liberal, like or not. 

Lori S.

From: Gregory C. Michalenko <gcmichalenko at uwaterloo.ca
<mailto:gcmichalenko at uwaterloo.ca> > 
Sent: Friday, October 18, 2019 1:33 PM
To: Kevin Thomason <kevinthomason at mac.com <mailto:kevinthomason at mac.com> >;
Lori Strothard <strothjkl at sympatico.ca <mailto:strothjkl at sympatico.ca> >;
Eleanor Grant <eleanor7000 at gmail.com <mailto:eleanor7000 at gmail.com> >
Subject: Re: [All] Undecided

I'm in Montreal until Sunday.  Here's another take on how to vote:  A
shopowner of 60 years urged me to vote Liberal because Trudeau's the richest
candidate and the rich make the most honest leaders because their wealth
immunizes them from being prone to bribery.He then said that our western
civilization owes everything to the Christian Orthodox of Damascus and Putin
will save us from all the rotten things that are happening in the mid east.
So wrap your heads around that one before you head to the ballet box.  

The Green Party candidate in the riding I'm in here is, appropriately, Mr.
Green.

I will vote Green - I want to acknowledge the bare fact that we are in a
crisis and they are most directly addressing it.  I have voted strategically
so many times and, in my advanced age, am weary of it this time.

- Gregoire M.

  _____  

From: All <all-bounces at gren.ca <mailto:all-bounces at gren.ca> > on behalf of
Kevin Thomason <kevinthomason at mac.com <mailto:kevinthomason at mac.com> >
Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2019 11:38 PM
To: Lori Strothard; Eleanor Grant
Cc: GREN
Subject: Re: [All] Undecided 

Hi Eleanor and Lori, 

Excellent questions and points.  I would agree that the anti-environmental
Conservatives nationally, inconjunction with Doug Ford, Brad Wall and Jason
Kenney would be a disaster for the environment that our country might never
recover from given the speed our climate is changing.

Lori, I agree that the Liberals need strong support and Eleanor, I think
your approach of looking at things riding by riding has merit too.  While
the Liberals didn't do enough on the environment in their first three years
in power, this past year they have made some impressive progress on
Protected Places and meeting out 2020 Achii targets for marine and land
protection, finally introducing EV incentives, etc..  Most importantly, they
have outlined a really strong environmental agenda for the years ahead.
Places like Waterloo where Bardish Chagger (Liberal) is such as strong
candidate it likely makes sense for citizens to do all that they can to
ensure that she returns to Ottawa.

Other ridings such as Kitchener-Centre where Mike Morrice (Green) is poised
to hopefully become the first Green Party MP outside of British Columbia
could also be very important.  Mike Morrice could have a tremendous impact
similar to how Mike Schreiner provincially has had such an incredible impact
as the only Green MPP.

Ridings such as Kitchener-Conestoga where the Conservatives won by only 251
votes in the last election could also be very important.  With the rapidly
changing demographics of the riding there is a good chance that Harold
Albrecht (Conservative) could lose his seat, though he is counting on the
NDP, Liberals and Greens splitting the vote in such a manner that he is
returned to Ottawa.  Somehow with this riding already enduring Mike Harris
Jr. we need to ensure a better outcome and more environmental awareness
federally.

Overall, it is unfortunate that according to many recent polls we could be
fighting endless cuts and issues from a Conservative Prime Minister for the
next four years - we don't have four more years with our current climate
crisis.  We all need to be doing everything that we can in the next week to
get the best people elected and as many people to the polls as possible -
particularly younger Canadians who tend to have the lowest voting rates but
have the most to lose in the decades ahead as they will be trying to survive
the climate crisis long after we are all gone.

Cheers,

Kevin.

-------------------------------------

Kevin Thomason

1115 Cedar Grove Road
Waterloo, Ontario Canada  N2J 3Z4

Phone: (519) 888-0519
Mobile Phone/WhatsApp: (519) 240-1648
Twitter: @kthomason
E-mail: <mailto:kevinthomason at mac.com>  kevinthomason at mac.com

-----------------------------------------

On Oct 17, 2019, at 10:37 PM, strothjkl at sympatico.ca
<mailto:strothjkl at sympatico.ca>  wrote:

Its such a close race, nothing is for sure, and every vote matters right
now.all I know is I definately don't want the anti-environmental
Conservatives,  therefore I'm voting Liberal, although in a better voting
system I would vote Green. Like them or not, The Liberals need as many votes
as they can get right now or else we will have a Conservative government.
Already many bots have been detected trying to sway the vote to favour
Conservatives, so Canada's democratic and pro climate change action future
is at stake.

Lori S.

From: All <all-bounces at gren.ca <mailto:all-bounces at gren.ca> > On Behalf Of
Eleanor Grant
Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2019 1:58 PM
To: GREN2 <All at gren.ca <mailto:All at gren.ca> >
Subject: [All] Undecided

Maybe I shouldn't put this on the GREN list, but I'm wondering if others are
still undecided between NDP and Green, as I am. What guiding principles
helped you decide? 

I generally say "Know your riding". Thus, Kit Centre - Green;
Toronto-Danforth - NDP. (And even Regina-Wascana - Liberal, to keep Ralph
Goodale's seat from going Con.) 

But Waterloo is probably a safe Liberal seat. 

So I listened to my local candidates, and still have no preference. 

Pros and cons: 

-Lori Campbell NDP is endorsed by  <http://350.org/> 350.org ("Our Time"). 

-Greens rightly called out NDP on fracking. I'm dismayed by BC premier
Horgan's approval of the LNG terminal, which will promote expansion of
fracking in BC. 

-Even worse are Horgan's support for Site C (which will flood prime farmland
in the Peace and sacred Indigenous sites) *and* the clear-cutting of
old-growth rainforest in the BC interior. 

How much should I be guided by a provincial NDP's record? (And the Greens
were afraid to withdraw their support from the gov't over Site C.) 

-I also don't like the tone of the bickering between NDP and Greens, tho the
Greens have been more gracious. 

-Serious missteps by Eliz May early in the campaign, but on the debate stage
she's the only leader who knows her stuff. 

I guess I can see where I'm leaning. But I'd like to know how some of you
went about deciding, or what you think I haven't considered. 

Happy E-Day, 

Eleanor 

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