[All] Fwd: Fw: Farm and Food Wastes to Fuel Cell Electricity for Municipalities
Robert Milligan
mill at continuum.org
Fri Jan 8 03:02:52 EST 2010
Hi Lulu,
Thank you for your response which I will keep confidential. However
-- avoiding reading between the lines -- among other things, I simply
can't see how you went from just a concern out of the blue (in your
first email response to me?) for the faults of diesel fuels saying
"Diesel is VERY DANGEROUS and extremely harmful for the environment
for the soot and cancers generated." TO in your following email that
included a copy of your email to the same LRT officials that I had
just written to (and in the same order) -- plus to others -- saying
"In regards to the proposed Light Rail Transit system for Waterloo
Region, I do not support the use of Diesel fuels because it is a major
producer of soot which is the second highest contributor to climate
change and contributes to various cancers as well."
First you talk about "diesel" in your email to me without indicating
where this was coming from -- although I had mentioned coincidently
diesel LRT in my quasi-confidential email to the LRT officials, but
only in relation to track sharing problems. Then you send a letter to
the same people+ that I had just corresponded with and suddenly
"diesel" has morphed into "diesel ... (for) ... the proposed Light
Rail Transit system for Waterloo Region, ...". Where oh where did the
Light Rail Transit system for Waterloo Region come from?
I must admit that our sub-conscious minds can work in mysterious ways!
I guess I'm just one of those few crazy people who looks for
reasonable explanations as to my people say certain things!! While
your letter certainly had words in it -- whose presence I certainly
appreciated -- their explanatory success seemed a little questionable.
I also have a concern that you sent a copy to that Dis-environmental
Monster (and former Environment Minister) John Baird. I fear that you
risked awakening his negative passions about LRT -- that he can
express at cabinet meetings when our LRT funding is raised. He had so
strongly used his vitriol to lead the attack against Ottawa's proposed
LRT, http://thetyee.ca/News/2007/01/23/LightRail/.
Combine this with the fact that the National Post, the Conservative
Party Bible for many, ran an attack article on LRTs
recently,"Rethinking Green: Save the environment: Don't take transit",
by a Kevin Libin, "http://www.nationalpost.com/story.html?id=2314104".
(Libin doesn't like buses but hates LRT more. His solution is no
public transit but "more roads, and more efficient roads ..." and his
"solutions for the small minority totally lacking other means" include
"car-pooling" with strangers and private little "Jitney buses", and ",
subsidized Prius taxis, or even car subsidies, " -- the rich in their
limos of course. I wonder if he noticed the front page story on hyper
traffic jams in the Toronto Star Thursday?) I predict that traffic
jams will be the downfall of non-progressive Conservatives!
The Conservatives only very reluctantly gave money to Toronto's LRT.
(I have been a member of the [Progressive] Conservative Party at
various times -- along with the Liberls, NDP. & Greens. And even now
they have some very evolved-thinking members like Kevin Thomason who I
think is a really great person. But some of their people are just too
mean-spirited and nasty -- I suspect that Scrooge or Count Dracula or
The Hound of the Baskervilles are probably favourite movies.)
I am so much against diesel LRT tmyself -- and it was rejected by the
Region for similar reasons. But it does have some advantages over
"electric wire" LRT, especially the ability to run on existing CP & CN
tracks so as to decrease the capital cost of LRT. If only there was a
new but viable/practical cost-effective alternative "fuel/energy"
propulsion system -- not likely Fuel Cells right now (and you have to
carry a combustible fuel such as hydrogen or methane) -- that our
LRT could use to run independently on the CP, CN, etc. tracks. I
suggest there is such a proven propulsion system. Keep posted --
although I have given some significant clues.
Best wishes,
Robert
PS1: I am also against farm diesel to run electrical generators that
burn methane(?) -- but you and I were not talking about that! It
might have been more relevant though.
PS2: We all need to be aware that every time we communicate, we may
be create meanings in the recipient(s) beyond -- or even less than --
those which we intended, or said we intended.
Begin forwarded message:
> From: Robert Milligan <mill at continuum.org>
> Date: January 7, 2010 10:14:21 PM GMT-05:00
> To: Louisette Lanteigne <butterflybluelu at rogers.com>
> Cc: all at gren.ca
> Subject: Re: [All] Fw: Farm and Food Wastes to Fuel Cell Electricity
> for Municipalities
>
> Hi Lulu,
>
> I must commend your motivation to protect the health of at least all
> Canadians and our environment. Not unrelated, you show great
> initiative in dealing with our energy crises through farm waste, at
> least.
>
> However, you appear to have grossly misinterpreted an email that I
> sent early this morning (2:22 AM) to important LRT officials (with a
> copy to yourself and some others who have expressed an interest in
> LRT)!! As the next email will show, It involved the CN & CP track
> sharing difficulties of a proposed diesel LRT system in BC. This did
> not mean that I support diesel LRT for this Region or anywhere else.
>
> You did send me an email at 11:42 AM expressing your concern
> implying that I was supporting diesel LRT for the Region -- thank
> you for that. But before I could reply at 1:55 PM, you dashed off a
> letter to the same LRT officials -- and others including Provincial
> & Federal cabinet ministers -- arguing strongly against diesel LRT
> for Waterloo Region, when NOBODY THAT I KNOW IS ADVOCATING IT. But
> arriving at the doors of these LRT officials on the heel of my email
> does suggest that you had me in mind! Verify, verify, verify!!! (I
> was trained in the hard sciences.) Perhaps you made this inference
> because you couldn't conceive what else that I had in mind for a
> propulsion system -- no, it is nor fuel cells.
>
> None of us likes to be in error but I for one need to know when I am
> in error so I can improve my knowledge of the World. So among other
> things, I try to avoid leaping to conclusions. Why didn't you wait
> for my reply -- or have phoned me -- before communicating your
> diesel LRT concerns to various LRT officials, implying to them both:
> 1) that I was "stupidly" (with all of the obvious problems of
> diesel) advocating diesel LRT for Waterloo' Region, and 2) that I
> was sharing confidences with others (I like to share as much as
> possible & would hope that ideal not be undermined -- even subtley?)
>
> The collaborative/cooperative forces impelling our important common
> causes should not be weakened by trivial or unsound responses and
> actions!!
>
> Let's try to play the game at a higher level and not waste one of
> our most valuable resources -- Time.
>
> Keep up your 99.9% good work Lulu -- but always be vigilant for the .
> 1% !
>
> Best wishes,
> Robert
>
> PS:
> Why does you below email (i:46 AM) have the "Subject: Farm and Food
> Wastes to Fuel Cell Electricity for Municipalities" yet the body
> says only, "In regards to the proposed Light Rail Transit system for
> Waterloo Region, I do not support the use of Diesel fuels because
> it is a major producer of soot which is the second highest
> contributor to climate chIange and contributes to various cancers as
> well." If you said that you support a Regional LRT -- and other uses
> -- run by fuel cells charged by the hydrogen in methane produced by
> farm waste -- and would never support the crazy idea of diesel LRT
> (just in case the Region might be considering it even though
> it was rejected as an option early on) -- for the reasons you
> stated, then your communication would have been more relevant to the
> topic! (I always try to use a little humour.)
>
> Fuel cells appear far from being practical for most uses because of
> their still high cost, heaviness, use of rare metals, etc. But
> research may improve the situation -- and maybe I am not completely
> up to date. I do like the idea of methane from farm waste, be it for
> fuel cells or?
>
>
>
> On 7-Jan-10, at 2:06 PM, Louisette Lanteigne wrote:
>
>> Hi folks
>>
>> Farms = food, water, carbon storage and carbon reduction and
>> ELECTRICITY. By using food production and farm wastes as NON
>> BURNING fuel sources to charge fuel cell electricity, we can
>> improve water all over using technologies that are already in use
>> in Renton Washington.
>>
>> Here's what I've sent the Ministries today. Have a good one.
>>
>> Lulu
>>
>>
>> --- On Thu, 1/7/10, Louisette Lanteigne
>> <butterflybluelu at rogers.com> wrote:
>>
>> From: Louisette Lanteigne <butterflybluelu at rogers.com>
>> Subject: Fw: Farm and Food Wastes to Fuel Cell Electricity for
>> Municipalities
>> To: "Gord Miller" <commissioner at eco.on.ca>,
>> Sharon.Bailey at ontario.ca, Minister at ec.gc.ca, scarpf at parl.gc.ca, DucepG at parl.gc.ca
>> , LaytoJ at parl.gc.ca, "lminshall at grandriver.ca" <lminshall at grandriver.ca
>> >, minister.moe at ontario.ca, dcansfield.mpp.co at liberal.ola.org, Dalton.McGuinty at premier.gov.on.ca
>> , john.tory at pc.ola.org, hhampton-qp at ndp.on.ca
>> Date: Thursday, January 7, 2010, 2:01 PM
>>
>> Dear Ministers
>>
>> Please review the following information in regards to how Canadian
>> farmlands and food production companies can provide emission free
>> energy solutions for municipalities using current existing fuel
>> cell technologies.
>>
>> Ms. Minshall, please share this information with the Lake Erie
>> Source Water Protection Committee.
>>
>> I believe if we were to effectively utilize farmlands for energy
>> protection needs, it would be a wise long term investment in food
>> security, air quality, carbon reduction and energy security. It
>> would provide for a closed looped system for food and fuel needs
>> and would dramatically improve upon water quality from recharge
>> right to the Great Lakes. Please review the following information
>> and please help secure the preservation of farmlands in order to
>> protect and preserve key water resources including the Waterloo
>> Moraine.
>>
>> Thank you kindly for your time.
>>
>> Louisette Lanteigne
>> 700 Star Flower Ave.
>> Waterloo Ontario
>> N2V 2L2
>> 519-885-7619
>>
>> --- On Thu, 1/7/10, Louisette Lanteigne
>> <butterflybluelu at rogers.com> wrote:
>>
>> From: Louisette Lanteigne <butterflybluelu at rogers.com>
>> Subject: Farm and Food Wastes to Fuel Cell Electricity for
>> Municipalities
>> To: "Chair Ken Seiling" <sken at region.waterloo.on.ca>, "Mayor Carl
>> Zehr" <carl.zehr at kitchener.ca>, "MPPJohn Milloy" <jmilloy.mpp at liberal.ola.org
>> >, "CAO Mike Murray" <wkaren at region.waterloo.on.ca>, jbradley.mpp at liberal.ola.org
>> , ldombrowsky.mpp at liberal.ola.org, dduncan.mpp at liberal.ola.org, gphillips.mpp at liberal.ola.org
>> , spupatello.mpp at liberal.ola.org, jwatson.mpp at liberal.ola.org, braidp1 at parl.gc.ca
>> , RitzG at parl.gc.ca, BairdJ at parl.gc.ca, PrentJ at parl.gc.ca
>> Date: Thursday, January 7, 2010, 1:46 PM
>>
>> Honourable Ministers and Mayors,
>>
>> In regards to the proposed Light Rail Transit system for Waterloo
>> Region, I do not support the use of Diesel fuels because it is a
>> major producer of soot which is the second highest contributor to
>> climate change and contributes to various cancers as well. You may
>> view the following web links for details regarding this:
>>
>> http://www.catf.us/projects/diesel/dieselhealth/county.php?c=16077&site=0
>>
>> http://www.stopthesoot.org/dieselhealthconcerns.htm
>>
>> http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2008/mar/24/climatechange.fossilfuels
>>
>> Diesel is also more costly to ship. http://www.ulpower.com/ul260i-qa-diesel.htm
>>
>> Currently in Japan , bio fuel is being reclaimed to run their
>> public transit systems.
>>
>> http://www.japanfs.org/en/pages/029569.html
>>
>> I contacted the Grand River Transit (GRT) about this and here is
>> the response I received.
>> _____________________________________________________________
>>
>> Hi Louisette
>>
>> Thank you for the suggestion that you have provided to GRT.
>> At this time Grand River Transit has no plans for using used
>> cooking oil,
>> or Bio diesel in our Fleet.
>> We have evaluated this initiative a few times over the years and have
>> concluded that there would be no benefit at this time.
>> We do not have any of the infrastructure in place to process the oil.
>> There are a number of companies that are in this industry. The
>> largest is
>> Rothsay, a division of Maple Leaf.
>> They have contracts with a large number of restaurants and processing
>> plants to purchase this oil. They also have a refinery in Montreal .
>> If you have any questions or concerns, please let me know.
>>
>> Randy Steckly
>> Manager, Transit Fleet
>> Grand River Transit
>> 250 Strasburg Rd
>> Kitchener ON N2E 3M6
>> (519) 585-7597 ext 7205
>> (519 585-7640 fax
>> __________________________________________________________
>>
>> In light of the feedback from Mr. Steckly, I contacted Rothsay's
>> research centre in Guelph regarding the concept of oil to fuel
>> products. It's certainly a concept worth researching, especially
>> when you consider the fact that Waterloo Region is the second
>> largest food belt in Ontario . We have an abundance of raw
>> materials to work with.
>>
>> According to this PDF presentation by Grand River Conservation
>> Authority's Peter Emerson, in 2005 (slide 24 of 37) we had 290,000
>> head of cattle in the Grand River Watershed, producing waste
>> materials equal to the population of 5 million people. 500,000 pigs
>> added waste equal to 1.8 million and 8.8 million chickens added
>> enough waste for 800,000 people.
>>
>> http://www.grandriver.ca/WaterForum/Emerson.pdf
>>
>> If we were to implement bio fuel recovery from both food and farm
>> production and allocate it into a project similar to what is
>> happening currently in Renton Washington , we could actually
>> provide a renewable source of localized electricity without
>> emissions. The system takes bio fuels and transfers the energy into
>> a fuel cell battery without any burning. To view this technology
>> as shown on a video produced by MSNBC, please visit here:
>> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5335635/
>>
>> To view the official site of the fuel cell manufacturer who built
>> Renton 's system, visit here: http://www.fuelcellenergy.com/wastewater-treatment.php
>>
>> To view the Canadian Hydrogen and Fuel Cell Association visit here:
>> http://www.h2fcc.ca/
>>
>> To implement conversion of bio fuels to fuel cell electricity in
>> our area would be very beneficial towards protecting the water
>> quality of the Grand River and Lake Erie. Currently our phosphate
>> levels in the Grand River are 26 times above the MOE recommended
>> levels. By implementing this program it can help keep our rivers
>> and recharge areas cleaner . In my view it is a gold mine waiting
>> to be tapped into. It would benefit our local farming communities
>> and protect these valuable lands by increasing their net worth.
>> Active farms are needed for food production and long term food
>> security and by increasing the worth of the natural capital
>> services provided we can increase the land values of the properties
>> themselves. If more economic worth given to farmlands, the better
>> we can protect these key resources for the long term. Protection of
>> farmlands means the protection of air, water food AND energy
>> resources. This sort of value must be allocated as soon as
>> possible. Since the 1950's Central Ontario has paved over 49% of
>> it's prime farmland to accomidate the expansion of the Greater
>> Toronto Region. If we don't change this trend will will lose our
>> ability to protect this key resources. Development pressures on the
>> recharge areas for the Grand River Watershed are continuing to pose
>> serious risks to the long term viability of our water supply and
>> this puts our municipalities and agricultural industries at risk.
>> Our area s planning on establishing a 1.2 Billion pipeline option
>> to Lake Erie to provide for future water needs. That doesn't
>> include the funding for the energy required to pump, treat or
>> transport the water.
>>
>> Farm and food production wastes are a renewable resource material
>> and it provides a localized closed looped system for both food and
>> fuel production while sustaining crops that help absorb carbon
>> emissions. The more farm and food production wastes we can divert
>> from the Grand River and landfills, the better for the water, air
>> quality and our energy needs. It's a win win no matter how you look
>> at it. If this can be the choice fuel supply for our future Light
>> Rail Transit system, all the better!
>>
>> On another note regarding public transit, I came across a report
>> titled, "An Assessment on the Impact of Harmonized Sales Tax on
>> Municipal Public Transit Services" produced by London Transit on
>> behalf of the Ontario Transit Association. It's posted on line here
>> at: http://www.octa.on.ca/downloads/submissions/Impact_of_HST_on_Municipal_Transit_Services_Amended_Final.pdf
>>
>> I wasn't sure if you've seen it but since the tax came into effect
>> so quickly I thought it would be a handy document to pass along. We
>> have to factor in those costs with the equation. Currently only 78%
>> of the PST portion of the HST is refundable for municipalities.
>>
>> Thank you kindly for your time.
>>
>> Louisette Lanteigne
>> 700 Star Flower Ave.
>> Waterloo Ontario
>> N2V 2L2
>> 519-885-7619
>> _______________________________________________
>> All mailing list
>> All at gren.ca
>> http://gren.ca/mailman/listinfo/all_gren.ca
>
> _______________________________________________
> All mailing list
> All at gren.ca
> http://gren.ca/mailman/listinfo/all_gren.ca
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