[All] Fw: Canadian Ban needed on 13L Toilets
Robert Milligan
mill at continuum.org
Mon Jan 4 01:10:04 EST 2010
Lulu, Randy & Sharon,
"Modern" sewage treatment systems are a problem in so many ways
(although they do produce lots of money for civil & environmental
engineering consulting firms):
I. Use lots of increasingly scarce and not cost-free drinking water;
2. Pollutes water courses -- and aquifers [thanks Randy] -- with
pathogenic microbes, intestinal parasites, toxic chlorine byproducts,
Rx products, toxic industrial chemicals, BOD, COD, etc.;
3. Does same to soil (& water courses again) when sludge is spread on
farmland;
4. Discharge methane, hydrogen sulphide, etc. as gases into nearby
communities and the global atmosphere;
5. Incur great costs in building, operating & maintaining;
6. Dis-values, dilutes & pollutes 2 nutrient-rich human resources --
faeces & urine -- instead of (say) the Federation of Canadian
Municipalities "incentizing" universities & inventors to develop
methane/hydrogen/humus generators for homes & businesses -- we could
call them "distributed waste-processing fuel generators". (For
hundreds of years Chinese villagers have been pooping through their
kitchen floor to produce methane for their cook stove & humus for
their crops. The likely stigma associated with faeces &/or urine
research is probably behind (a pun?) the lack of any serious research
at the universities. Although a courageous woman engineering professor
at the Ohio University in Athens (I attended an environmental fair
there 2 years ago) recently developed & patented a process to produce
hydrogen from urine -- urine being a less negative waste product with
some health benefits from diluted topical application (e. g. peeing in
the shower to combat foot fungus [thanks Randy]) to tonic health
benefits from drinking it (I had a book on this but chose other tonics
instead). A caution: methane & hydrogen are explosive; some of the
very toxic hydrogen sulphide gas (or sewer gas) may be produced with
the methane. Generally we are dealing with a very complex situation in
developing anaerobic humus toilets -- which remain but a dream in
modern nations (as far as I know [sorry Sharon]). However, these
difficult times may create the necessary readiness. In the meantime we
do have the aerobic humus or composting toilet which processes the
waste faster and (I think) produces CO2 as a waste gas which could be
bio-sequestered in a solar greenhouse (underground or geodesic or ?).
The 2 basic designs for an aerobic humus or composting toilet would be
one with a small electrical stirring chamber on the floor underneath
the toilet and the other a "clivus multrum" design (http://www.clivus.com/
) which has a large gravity fed chamber in the basement (see the
latter type in operation at YMCA's environmental learning center at
Paradise Lake -- John & Susan B have also been there). Some people add
earthworms to the latter to improve the humus quality & speed
decomposition. Maybe check these out too:
1) http://home.howstuffworks.com/home-improvement/energy-efficiency/composting-toilet.htm
2) http://www.hundertwasser.at/english/oeuvre/eco/oeko_humustoilette.php
3) http://www.compostingtoilet.org/ (new design)
4) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Composting_toilet
Generally Google "humus toilet" OR "composting toilet". (Also
"underground solar
greenhouse" OR "geodesic solar greenhouse")
Federal agencies need to be lobbied to develop standards in these
creatively innovative areas!
Cheers,
Robert
On 3-Jan-10, at 6:39 PM, Sharon Woodley wrote:
> I've been wanting to change my toilets for ages now - I'm not even
> sure if they are 13L but probably - and I will go straight to the
> anaerobic humus toilets if I can - Robert where can I get more info
> on those?
> Sharon Woodley
>
> --- On Sun, 1/3/10, Randy B. McLean <randybmclean at rogers.com> wrote:
>
> From: Randy B. McLean <randybmclean at rogers.com>
> Subject: Re: [All] Fw: Canadian Ban needed on 13L Toilets
> To: "Robert Milligan" <mill at continuum.org>, "Louisette Lanteigne" <butterflybluelu at rogers.com
> >
> Cc: all at gren.ca
> Received: Sunday, January 3, 2010, 4:34 AM
>
> Lu and Robert:
>
> A 13 litre toilet is a total waste unless you weigh 800 lbs and eat
> 50 lbs of food a day. I have 13 litre toilets but am not on any
> system (private well and septic). The toilets do not use anywhere
> near 13 litres more like half that and are fully adjustable. They
> are a good design and only need one flush no matter who uses them.
> I know this is not a defence for my flamboyancy but more of a
> statement to promote common sense.
>
> Jet toilets are not bad. A lot of none North Americans like bidets
> and they use more water and little toilet paper.
>
> Transporting waste with water has been a fundamental paradox of the
> industrial age. Turns out we are just like bacteria after all.
>
> What is worse is that most infrastructures in most cities have
> leaking sewers. Those below ground water elevation infiltrate
> millions of gallons per day and to repair is very expensive and not
> perfect or permanent. Construction of new subdivisions are of poor
> quality and poorly inspected. I have been in new installs that have
> yet to be hooked into the system and they are flowing 1/4 pipe. All
> ground water infiltration. Some municipalities are so anal and
> political or afraid to tell people to disconnect their sump pumps
> and down pipes from the sanitary that they actually design in
> overcapacity at the WPCP. The nutrient load and the cold water
> adversely affect the zoogleal bacteria to such a point that the
> biomass is now full of lower species of fungi and they have a nasty
> by-product that produces a polysaccharide and foam. Frozen brown
> foam laying all over a plant then thawing to rot and stink is the
> norm. Now to combat the stink they have elaborate deodourizers
> spaying a mercaptan around the perimeter of the plant. (bandaid)
>
> Banning 13 litre toilets is smoke and mirrors. It will be used to
> complicate the issue and divert the real problem. Inflow and
> infiltration I/I (eye eye) is the major problem but it cannot be
> corrected if municipalities continue to allow sewers to be built in
> shifiting beds. Poorly prepared and full of ground water. Europe
> and the States are going back to smaller areas collecting smaller
> volumes and treating the waste at a smaller plant which is local..
> No more super plants treating waste water that travels 100 miles to
> be treated. The giant sewer running from the Duffins Creek plant in
> Whitby north to Sutton is cracked and sitting beneath the water
> table; mostly gravel bed. It is leaking after 30 years of service
> and cannot be fixed but only left to further decay. This thing is a
> giant tile bed and will drain the morains along its route, mixed
> with dilute waste to arrive for treatment barely capable to support
> bacterial growth. It will have to be replaced. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
> $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
>
> Municipalities know they have a problem and know it is the
> collection system. They spend millions annually studying the
> problem and collecting recommendations to fix but the cost of the
> jobs make the task un-reachable especially during these times. The
> cities which have built sewage collection systems in the water table
> now have a giant drainage tile system and sewage collection system
> hopefully all going to one spot but I know better. They can shut
> off some of the inflow or intentional illegal hook ups and that
> takes care of the problem of flash flows when it rains. Keeping the
> ground water out? that is an entire different headache.
>
> 2 cent Randy
>
> ps to not get rid of waste immediatley after it has left the body is
> dangerous, however I believe urinating while showering keeps your
> feet free from fungal infection.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Robert Milligan
> To: Louisette Lanteigne
> Cc: all at gren..ca
> Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 2:11 AM
> Subject: Re: [All] Fw: Canadian Ban needed on 13L Toilets
>
> Hi Lulu,
>
> I agree as a first step, but then ban the 6L, then the 4.8, ending
> up with energy (methane & hydrogen) & humus producing
> anaerobic humus toilets -- and do it all sooner rather than later.
> In letter to the Winnipeg Free Press, a lady said (in partial
> support), " In the case of a standard toilet, it is a waste of
> resources to flush away feces with drinking water and then spend
> millions of dollars on a sewage system, then separate them in a
> sewage treatment plant." http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/opinion/letters_to_the_editor/null-39356472.html
>
> Best Wishes & Happy New Year,
> Robert
>
>
> On 3-Jan-10, at 12:43 AM, Louisette Lanteigne wrote:
>
>> Hi folks
>>
>> As I was digging around the economics of the Lake Erie Pipeline
>> when I stumbled across some interesting toilet info. Now I'm
>> requesting a national ban on 13 L toilets. The note is below if
>> your curious.
>>
>> Lulu :0)
>>
>> --- On Sun, 1/3/10, Louisette Lanteigne
>> <butterflybluelu at rogers.com> wrote:
>>
>> From: Louisette Lanteigne <butterflybluelu at rogers.com>
>> Subject: Canadian Ban needed on 13L Toilets
>> To: braidp1 at parl.gc..ca, mintc at tc.gc.ca, scarpf at parl.gc.ca, Prentice.J at parl.gc.ca
>> ,DucepG at parl.gc.ca, LaytoJ at parl.gc.ca
>> Date: Sunday, January 3, 2010, 12:34 AM
>>
>> The US has banned the use of 13 litre toilets since 1994 and the
>> state of California is phasing out 6L toilets in favour of high
>> efficiency toilets that use 4.8 litres or less but in Canada, we
>> still allow for the sale of the 13 litre toilets and it puts a
>> heavy burden upon municipalities and Canadian Taxpayers.
>>
>> According to a report by the Canadian Water and Wastewater
>> Association, in 2005 it is estimated that one in four toilets
>> installed in Canada were the wasteful 13L toilets. Those "new"
>> toilets resulted in 8690 megalitres of water being wasted
>> needlessly, enough to fill 3476 Olympic Sized Pools. To view this
>> report, visit here:
>> http://www.cwwa.ca/pdf_files/13L%20Toilets%20Sales%20Report.pdf
>>
>> Consider that water-efficient toilets use about 60 percent less
>> water than the old style 13-litre toilets and that, on average,
>> every Canadian flushes over 80 litres of water down the toilet each
>> day. Mandating efficient six-litre toilets would result, over time,
>> in a water savings well in excess 500-billion litres a year.
>>
>> Across Ontario there are numerous rebate programs in place to
>> replace older model toilets but it would be far more cost effective
>> to simply ban the sale of them. Most of these units are produced in
>> the US where they can't lawfully use them. It would not
>> significantly impact Canadian industries to change the laws.
>>
>> The ban on 13 litre toilets would save municipalities money on
>> energy costs. According to a report produced by Power Application
>> Group on behalf of the Independent Energy System Operator (IESO),
>> water treatment and pumping and sewage treatment makes up 33% of
>> municipal electricity usage. To view the report visit here:
>>
>> http://www.ieso.ca/imoweb/pubs/bi/Ontario_Municipalities-An_Electricity_Profile_January2008.pdf
>>
>> A ban on 13 Litre toilets would help to offset the need for
>> municipalities to seek "new" water sources.The reduced energy costs
>> for municipalities across the country would be significant and it
>> would help to reduce carbon emissions and facilitate cost savings
>> for Canadian consumers. It's a win win situation.
>>
>> Thank you kindly for your time.
>>
>> Louisette Lanteigne
>> 700 Star Flower Ave.
>> Waterloo Ontario
>> N2V 2L2
>> 519-885-7619
>> _______________________________________________
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